Highlights from the "Old School Hardcore Kids" group part II

SSD - Fuck yeah!! This is the show with Iron Cross and Government Issue. There's a great picture in the "Banned in D.C. book" as well. What a road trip that was from Boston to D.C. - Drew Stone


Early Leeway with Joe Bossler on stage. Long Island somewhere.


Me singing "Discriminate Me" for Agnostic Front. Jane Street Rock Hotel. R.I.P. Frenchy. - Mark Ryan


Minor Threat interview, Mt. Auburn VFW, back stage 3/4/1983


Black Flag - One thing I do remember are the creepy crawl kids from California menacing the kids in the pit at the New York shows. They were scary acid heads who were all about Black Flag as the band were a religion. - Brian Swirsky


Cro-Mags set list from Jane Street Rock Hotel show with the Bad Brains. The photo insert from "I Against I" was taken at this show. - Mark Ryan

Pat Longrie part IV

Pat with Uniform Choice at City Gardens, Photo: Ken Salerno

More incredible content from Pat Longrie. Again a big thanks to Billy Rubin for getting this together for us! Much more to come -Gordo DCXX

Do you remember any of the details of how/where you got the Unity EP pressed or where you got the sleeves printed? Do you remember how many were pressed? Do you remember where you first met Gavin?

Deciding to form our own record company was the easy part…actually finding the way and means to manufacture, produce, distribute and market the product was quite another task to say the least. We came across a man by the name of Tab Rex in Hollywood. He was a flamboyant record producer that knew absolutely nothing about punk rock. Dubar and I convinced him that we had some artists (UC and Unity) that could sell some units and open him up to a new audience of young people. He turned out to be a crook but we never let him manipulate our artistic vision…naive as it was.

I learned how to design sleeves, lay out pictures, typeset lyrics, pick record label colors, select colored vinyl etc. I never cared about how much money was made or lost, I only cared about the quality of the product. I remember holding the first copies of the final product in my hands and thinking, “This is ours…this is who we are and what we believe and no one can take that from us, ever.”

I don’t recall how many we printed initially…maybe 1000 or so, but an interesting sidebar to the trial by fire relationship with Tab Rex was the fact that he claimed to have the rights to a couple of songs by an up and coming Hip Hop outfit from South Central Los Angeles and he had a vision of releasing a 7” single with two Uniform Choice songs on one side and two tracks from this “Gangsta” rap group on the other. It never came to be but the group was NWA. Now that would have been an interesting combination.



What exactly was your involvement and role with Wishingwell? How do you remember things getting off the ground? What were the biggest difficulties with the label, your fondest memories, and biggest accomplishments looking back?

Pat Dubar and I were equal partners in Wishingwell records. We wanted to establish a label that placed the artist first. At that time the list of viable and perhaps more importantly, willing companies, that signed hardcore bands was non-existent. We were energized and motivated by the examples initiated by Dischord and Touch and Go and wanted to forge our own path.

With Unity and Uniform Choice respectively we felt we had two strong opening offerings and basically went about the task of learning how to build a company. It was both frustrating and exhilarating at the same time because we didn’t have any sort of blueprint.

My motivation in the beginning was pretty simple: never put art and profit in the same sentence. Even as a kid I never had any illusions of being a big time record executive or rock star. Punk music and the people that made up the entire scene meant everything to me. My iPod is filled with Dag Nasty, Rites Of Spring, Shades Apart, Government Issue, 7 Seconds, etc. because the excitement I experienced 25 years ago in listening to, watching and meeting these artists hasn’t subsided a bit. I’ve said this many times, but it rings true that it was a real family atmosphere in the beginning. Working with bands like Youth Of Today, Bl’ast!, Shades Apart, Apology (Mike Gitter’s project ) etc. to help promote their cause was fantastic, and a real eye opener to how demanding and time consuming a record label is, and then you have the inevitability of ego clashes. The more bands you work with, the more personalities you encounter. This coupled with trying to go to school and maintain a band was challenging, but I’m proud of what we did and tried to do in establishing an alternative for those without a voice to be heard.

When was it decided upon to put Unity "on hold"? When did the focus shift to playing in UC and why? What happened with Unity between this time and doing the Unity ‘Blood Days’ record?

Unity didn’t disband as much as it faded away. Because all the members were in high school and lived in different cities, it just wouldn’t work. The Blood Days record was Dubar’s idea so that he could put it on his own label “Powerhouse.” I didn’t mind because I thought it would be fun and probably my last collaboration with Dubar and I was pretty much correct on both accounts. Wishingwell was done and it was time to move on. Between the strain of company and band issues, it was just time to move on. (Editor’s Note: More on later era Unity to come).


Pat Longrie pounding the drums with Uniform Choice at City Gardens, Photo: Ken Salerno

Unity and UC were known for introspective, PMA-fueled lyrics and slogans that bands like Minor Threat and 7 Seconds first touched on a few years prior. What was the inspiration for these big loud statements that ultimately became battlecries for thousands of straight edge kids around the world in the following waves of the scene?

Punk rock and straight edge in particular fit me. It made perfect sense in a volatile time in my life. Minor Threat’s first single and 7 Seconds “Skins, Brains and Guts” spoke directly to me. I never understood why other kids, many of whom were my friends, found sanctuary in drinking, smoking and experimenting with drugs. I thought they were fools, so when I was introduced to like-thinking individuals it solidified by stance and legitimized my conviction. I had the complete support of my family and this was crucial to my comfort level. They encouraged me to follow whatever path I chose…of course my Father and uncles had a ball making fun of me when I went to gigs. They used to say, “you don’t need to go out and get bruises stage diving and slamming…we’ll pound on you right here in the living room!”

I wrote about my life. I structured lyrics that were relevant to me. Everyone has been a teenager and has lived through tough times filled with peer pressure, alienation and awkwardness…everyone. So I felt compelled to use hardcore as my forum. Again, I stress the importance of fellowship. I/we took a lot of shit for our anti-obsession convictions but as the movement grew, believe me, the negative element grew silent.

Even today I see chronic discontent from those who only wish to tear things down, past and present and who’s only view is revisionist. Everyone is entitled to their opinion and I fully embrace those words, I just won’t swallow it no matter how hard you try and make it palatable. I live through my actions, not the words of those who hide behind their version of the past. I don’t care how hard you try, you will never make everyone happy. So I say fuck you if you don’t like what I was, what I did, or what I have become…because I live my life exactly how I mapped it out in my dingy little bedroom all those years ago.

Return to the Revelation files

Original BOLD at CBGB's sing along photo from the final 7" lyric sheet, Photo: Tim DCXX

At this point you should already know the drill. Here's another handful of original Revelation layout elements / photos that I shot on my last visit to Rev HQ. Granted I've been looking at a lot of these photos on the actual releases for the past twenty something years, but for me, seeing these original classic shots is still pretty damn cool. - Tim DCXX


One of my personal favorite Rev releases and one of my personal favorite layouts, the original cut and paste photo collage from the Chain Of Strength - "True Till Death" 7", photo: Tim DCXX


Alex fuckin' Pain tearing up those 4 strings like only he can, another original photo from the Chain "TTD" 7", Photo: Tim DCXX


You know this one, it's about as classic as is gets, original back cover shot from the Gorilla Biscuits - "Start Today" LP. Photo: Tim DCXX


Bidip bo! Raybeez with Warzone original pic from the best New York City Hardcore compilation ever, "The Way It Is", Photo: Tim DCXX


Original photo from Rev 23, the Ray and Porcell 7", photo: Tim DCXX

Poll results for favorite Bad Brains record

The mighty HR with the Bad Brains in Rhode Island, Photo: Chris Gorman

I thought this poll was pretty much a no-brainer, and like the majority of voters, my vote went to "The ROIR Sessions". With the exception of a couple reggae jams, "The ROIR Sessions" is pretty much the perfect hardcore record. Shredding riffs, flawless drumming, pounding bass lines and some of the most original, powerful, gnarly vocals you'll ever hear. Seriously... if a song like "Right Brigade" doesn't move you, I don't know what does and probably don't want to know.

Now I know "Rock For Light" is virtually the same record, with that glossy Rick Ocasek production, but that's exactly why I'll take "The ROIR Sessions" over it. Whatever Rick Ocasek did when producing this record, I wish he kept for The Cars.

And for the handful of voters that voted for anything post "Quickness", I put out an open invitation and highly encourage you to contribute a piece here to Double Cross explaining how and why you would do such a thing. Obviously everyone is welcomed to their own opinion, but it blows my mind that 2 people in this world actually believe that "I and I Survive" is the best Bad Brains record ever. Wow, just wow.

Anyway, enjoy the Bad Brains photos, thanks for voting (whatever record you voted for) and please continue voting on all the future DCXX polls. -Tim DCXX


Bad Brains at City Gardens, Trenton NJ, Photo: Ken Salerno

Bad Brains - The ROIR Sessions - 170
Bad Brains - Rock For Light - 164
Bad Brains - I Against I - 95
Bad Brains - Quickness - 33
Bad Brains - Build A Nation - 8
Bad Brains - Rise - 5
Bad Brains - God Of Love - 4
Bad Brains - I and I Survive - 2


Dr Know with the Bad Brains at Fenders, Long Beach CA, Photo: Billy Rubin


Dr Know and HR with the Bad Brains at Fenders, Long Beach CA, Photo: Billy Rubin

Amenity - "Shine"

Shine from Amenity on Vimeo.

I've been a big fan of San Diego's Amenity since first hearing them back in the late 80's. I've also known Amenity's front man, Mike Down, since the early 90's and he's always been a stand up guy with a deep and sincere passion for music. When I heard Amenity were getting back together and playing the San Diego Radio Silence book release party, I was trying to figure out a way to be there for it. Unfortunately I couldn't make it happen for the San Diego show, but when word got out that they were going to be playing the No For An Answer reunion, I knew I couldn't miss that. In the end Amenity did not play the No For An Answer reunion, but considering they're back together again, hopefully I'll get that chance to see them sooner or later.

In the meantime, here's a new song and a brand new video from Amenity. I for one thought it was pretty damn cool and have to thank Anthony Popalardo over at Radio Silence for bringing this to my attention. Hopefully I can help bring it to the attention of a few more. Shine... -Tim DCXX

Storming Through Georgia, Dan Houston on Judge

Original flyer for said show, notice the formerly Youth Of Today tag line

DCXX reader and now-contributor Dan Houston sent us a great story about seeing JUDGE in his Georgia hometown back in '90. We thought this was great and so should you. Thanks to Dan! -Gordo DCXX

The Most Important Show Of My Life

Judge and Edgewise

The Whitehouse in Augusta, GA

July 26, 1990

In early 1989 my parents moved from California to Augusta, Georgia. I was not pleased with this turn of events. I had discovered punk/HC the previous summer, and had since become a Gilman street regular. I even helped out with re-opening the club after Tim Yohanan and MRR decided to end their involvement (by help I mean I showed up to a few meetings and cleaned the bathroom, but hey, I did do something - ha!). Anyway, I decided I was not hard enough to live on the streets of Oakland and reluctantly flew out to Georgia that June after I finished school.

Georgia sucked. The summer of 1989 was pretty much a wash out. My friends from California would call me every other week or so and let me know what awesome show I had just missed. The phone calls generally went something like this, "Dude, you missed Verbal Assault! It was so amazing, I can't believe you moved. Man, it sucks to be you."

Boy it did suck to be me.

Fortunately school started, and I managed to meet a couple of other kids that were sort of in the know about hardcore. One of these kids was a guy named Winn Wallace. I am not sure why Winn was into Hardcore, because he looked like an extra from an Edie Brickel video, but he knew his stuff. He told me about how Youth of Today had played Augusta in 1987. He also told me about how he was setting up shows, and was going to have bands from New York come play the next summer. I thought Winn was full of shit. I mean how was this pseudo long haired hippie kid going to get NYHC bands to come to Georgia?

Eventually I got my answer.

One afternoon I was listening to records and Winn was flipping through the current issue of MRR. He noticed that Don Fury had printed his phone number in his latest ad. Before I knew what was happening, Winn had grabbed the phone and was dialing New York.

I guess it is no real surprise that Don Fury answered his own phone, but at the time I was in awe as I heard Winn say, "Hey is this Don?" I was even more shocked when Fury didn't immediately hang up on him. Winn asked him if he knew Ray Cappo's phone number, to which Fury responded, "No, but I have the number for the guys from Judge, they should be able to help you out."

Within minutes Winn was on the phone with Sammy Siegler, and was asking him about Judge's upcoming summer tour. Sammy said he wasn't sure what was going on yet with Judge, but he knew that Shelter, Quicksand and Inside Out were touring, and that they were coming to Florida. Maybe they could stop in Georgia on the way down.

We were beyond excited. We spent the next week or so telling everyone how we had booked Shelter. One of our friends found the perfect place to do the show where we didn't have to put a deposit down, and we even lined up a PA.

But then Winn got a phone call from someone at Revelation. The Revelation person (possibly Jordan Cooper, but I can't remember) essentially said that Sammy had misspoken, and that the Shelter tour was not going to be heading our way. Ray Cappo then got on the phone and personally apologized to Winn, saying he didn't mean to let us down. He also said that he would make sure that he made it up to us. I am not sure what he did, but a few days later Sammy called Winn back and said that Judge was going to come through in July, and that Porcell had remembered playing Augusta in '87 and was looking forward to coming back.

We set the date for July 26. The rest of the summer was like one of those long countdown shows. Everything seemed to be building to that Judge show. We saw some really great bands play - everyone from Econochrist, to Neurosis (pre-drum circle era), to a pre-fame Green Day. But to us they were the warm up acts for the big event that was happening at the end of July.


Don Fury ad that appeared in MRR

I did have one problem with the show. Winn was convinced that more kids would come to the show if we put "Judge - formerly Youth Of Today!!!" on the flyer. I told him what a stupid idea that was, but he answered me by telling me I had no business sense. He was probably right, but to this day I get pissed when I look at that flyer. You'll also notice the flyer says Edgewise were from New York. We actually thought there were from New York, and we laughed about it when they got to Georgia and we learned they weren't from there after all. It turns out that they heard that a lot on that tour.

Finally the day was upon us. I had a a job in an Oriental Rug store that summer and routinely worked 12-14 hour days hauling rugs, but on July 26th I did about 15 minutes of work. Most of my day was spent on the office phone talking to Winn about getting the show space ready. At around 3pm my boss pretty much sent me home. I immediately headed down to the White House (the name of the show space), and waited. And waited...

At around 7pm the dudes from Edgewise drove up. I am pretty sure they were in two mini vans, and had a compact car. They had been caravaning with Judge's van, and somewhere in South Carolina, Judge had their alternator break. They were getting the part replaced, and would get to the show as soon as they could.

Anyway, the rest of the show went off with out a hitch. Somewhere around 250-300 people had shown up (this was a huge turn out for Augusta) and the place was more packed than I had ever seen it. Edgewise played an awesome set. We knew their lyrics because we had gotten their promo material a few weeks ahead of time. The Edgewise dudes were pretty freaked out that these kids in the middle of Georgia knew their words. Anyway, Edgewise finished up, and then we waited. And waited. And waited some more.

It was probably midnight(and a good two hours after Edgewise played) when Judge pulled up. But they pulled up.

Now I know this is probably not a huge deal for people who lived in the tri-state area in the late 80s, seeing as how Judge played all the time, but to us it was like superheroes had arrived. I was in awe as THE Mike Judge strolled into our makeshift show space. Due to the late hour many people had assumed they would not show up and had gone home, leaving around 100 or so people still waiting around. For some strange reason it appeared that the dudes in Judge were really stoked to play to the small crowd that was assembled. I didn't know at the time that Judge's perceived machismo and militant lyrics had really brought the troublemakers out on other stops of the tour. There had been some sort of incident at the previous show that had started to bum the band out. I guess they were just happy to see regular geeky hardcore kids who weren't into fighting. They quickly set up and began the set by asking for requests. I yelled out "Just Like YOU!!!" - and as soon as the words exited my mouth Lars and Porcell were into the opening riff.

The rest of the set was highlighted by an all Edgewise sing along on FED UP!, and Ian Shaprio, an older dude from Boston (and self proclaimed member of the original Boston Crew, which we highly doubted) yelling "WARRIORS!!!" after every song until they played what he wanted to hear. Porcell dedicated NY Crew to Augusta, changing the lyrics to Augusta Crew, which in hindsight is beyond hilarious.

I remember being totally drained after the show. I think I had been running on adrenaline for 48 hours. I got home at 4am, and called in sick the next day at work. I guess we were super lucky because I know Judge had some major trouble in Florida, and then skipped over some smaller shows on their way out to California.

A lot of people don't realize that there are/were actually scenes in small cities and towns around the country, and that the smallest gestures from a big touring band can have huge implications. Most of the early to mid 90's Georgia/South Carolina hardcore scene attended the show. For years, when we encountered some sort of major problem with a show space or with police, I would say things like, "hey if some kid can get Judge to come to Augusta, Georgia we should be able to figure this out."

That night, I stopped being a consumer of hardcore and started being an active participant in the hardcore scene.


Dan Houston up front singing along to Agnostic Front with the red Smorgasbord shirt on

Nick Greif - Turning Point

Nick stomping away with Turning Point, Photo courtesy of Turning Point

Over the past few weeks we have brought you a few sections of our interview with Jay Laughlin of Turning Point. Soon after we interviewed Jay, we got TP bassist Nick Greif on board to chime in as well. Since our first two parts were without Nick, we wanted to introduce Nick here and get some of his memories down before moving on to the rest of the interview with him and Jay. So here's Nick firing away on being one of the few and the proud... -Gordo DCXX

The first time I met Jay was at a ramp jam, and he had a black motorcycle jacket. He was selling Pointless demos. I was like, "who is this kid?" I felt like I was meeting a rock star. I was younger than him by a few years. I was impressionable. Actually, in a lot of those ramp jam photos, it's pretty much everyone who would end up in Turning Point and a part of the Turning Point crew, though at the time of the photos they were just various people in different bands, hanging out.

I was the youngest in the band. I ended up in TP because I had become friends with Ken, and we would skate together. After skating, we would go jam in this other kid Brian's garage. At the time, Ken kinda knew I wanted do a band. I remember TP starting as a summer project with Skip, Jay, and Ken, and they had asked Ken's brother to play bass, but he didn't end up doing it. So then they kinda asked me. I was psyched!

At the first two practices I couldn't even remember how to play anything. I was really nervous, with this shitty little amp that made like no noise. Then somehow at the third practice it came together a little more and I kinda figured out what I was doing. Up until then, I wasn't sure what they thought, but at the practice they said it was cool. Years later Jay told me they were gonna kick me out at the second practice, but I pulled it together by the third. So yeah, it was close.


Nick jams out the bass pre-Turning Point days, Photo: Kevin Sullivan

I just learned the songs from watching them play them. The way I remember it going, Jay would just say, "ok here it is." He had it figured out already. Then sometimes Skip might grab the bass, and then we'd just be doing it. We started at the beginning of the summer, and by the end of the summer we were ready to play shows. It was fun, Jay knew how to make it happen, even early on he kinda had the role as the dedicated band guy. I would say that 95% of the songs were written by him. Skip would hop in and work it out. Ken just knew exactly what to play. Skip was very serious earlier on, but he eased up a lot as time went by.

I was so impressed hanging out with these guys, because I was younger. Pretty quickly, they were like "let's do a demo!" I'm like, "whoa really?" That was kinda a big deal, it just really came together. I remember with the demo we did two sessions, with three or four songs in each session. We had all these dudes there to do back ups. I remember all of us sitting around and just dying as Skip did his vocals, because we were in the engineer's basement, and we were hearing just Skip's vocals isolated from the music as he did them, and we were all laughing our asses off. Skip didn't appreciate it at all.

Overall, early on we had no plan, we just did it. It was just fun and spontaneous and natural. "Wanna play a show?" "Yeah!" Get in the van, drive. Meet people. Play. Record a demo. Sell it. More shows. It was awesome. There was never any big plan, we just did it. I was lucky because even though I was only 14 or 15 at the beginning, my parents were very cool and gave me a lot of freedom. I remember our first trip to the Anthrax, on the ride up in the van we all were talking about what we told our parents. We are going around the van, and each person is talking about what they told their parents, whether it was lying to them and telling them that they were either sleeping over at a friend's house, or going to a local show or whatever. It gets to be my turn to turn, and I'm just like, "umm, I told them I was going to the Anthrax in Connecticut to play a show with other hardcore bands...is that bad?" Everyone was like, "what the fuck? How?!"

My parents thing was that as long as I was doing ok in school it was fine, they were very cool about it. In the band, even being the youngest, I kinda had the most freedom and the most relaxed home environment. Ken's house was kinda rigid, if you went there, you had to take your shoes off outside. I remember we'd be leaving and if it was winter our shoes would be frozen stiff with frost on then. At my house we could do whatever, wear your shoes inside! We'd play loud and the dishes upstairs would shake and my Dad would be watching TV like 6 inches from the screen so he could hear, and they didn't mind. Afterwards, my mom would make all of us dinner. It was great.

I wasn't really like a punk kid with a mowhawk. I went from being a generic skater, right into hardcore, it was a direct transition without any time dabbling with metal or punk really. I didn't do the whole crazy punk outfit thing. It was pretty much army pants, Air Jordans, and a skate shirt with a baseball hat. It's kinda just what I still wear today. I remember seeing Another State Of Mind, it was on one night and some of us were watching and we're like "whoa!" They get to the part with Ian and Henry working at Haagen-Dazs. And they are like "we're punk rock but we're still polite." I always dug that. It made sense to me. You didn't have to be self destructive to be pissed off.


Nick contorted and fast asleep in the Turning Point van with a friendly foot to the face, Photo courtesy of Turning Point