Favorite Dag Nasty album results

A Peter Cortner fronted Dag Nasty at City Gardens, Trenton NJ, Photo: Ken Salerno

In 1987, two of my favorite bands were Agent Orange and Dag Nasty. I can't even begin to tell you how many times I listened to Agent Orange "When You Least Expect it" and both of the Dag albums (Can I say and Wig Out) that year and the years that followed. For Agent Orange it was the skate connection, seeing and hearing them in the Skate Visions video made me an instant fan. With Dag Nasty, it was those powerful, polished, rocked out, hardcore songs that were sung with such sincerity and emotion. I heard "Can I Say" first, but "Wig Out at Denkos" not too long after and for whatever reason, the switch over from Smalley to Cortner on vocals was a total non-issue for me.

When I had heard that both Agent Orange and Dag Nasty were playing together at City Gardens, here in Trenton New Jersey, I felt like the veins in my head were going to explode and my brain was just going to melt. I was stoked to put it lightly. It was a Sunday in July of 1988, the Field Day tour. I rolled out to the show with my friend Tony Rettman and his brother Don who was the City Gardens DJ. Any shows that I went to with Don, we always got there early and I'd usually get into the club before the doors opened because I was with Tony and Don. I remember getting in and seeing the Dag Nasty merch being set up. They were selling the Field Day tour shirt and the legendary Dag Tags (Dag Nasty dog tags) and I wanted everything. Problem was, I didn't have more than three dollars in my pocket, so I was shit out of luck.


The mighty Dave Smalley with Dag Nasty at City Gardens, Trenton NJ, Photo: Ken Salerno

Now I know Dag Nasty didn't exactly have the greatest reputation by the time Field Day was released and I know a fair amount of fans were disappointed with Field Day, but none of that affected this show that night. The place was packed solid with skins, punks, metal heads, skaters, freaks, preppies, straight edge kids, this was a show for all kinds. Shoulder to shoulder, everyone was crammed into that place and me being the easily intimidated 14 year old straight edge skate punk that I was, I wasn't about to push through that fearsome looking crowd to make my way to the front of the stage. Instead I found a safe spot about four or five rows back and settled their for Dag's set.

As for Dag's set, it was friggin' flawless. They played a little bit of everything and played it all perfectly. Hearing Cortner belt out those Can I Say classics was amazing, as was hearing the Wig Out material. The crowd seemingly knew every word, with the exception of some of the Field Day material, which had been recently released a handful of months prior. I remember being in awe of just how tiny Doug Carrion was and being amazed at seeing Brain Baker from Minor Threat with long hair. I was in a state of euphoria standing there witnessing all of this and at that moment in time, there was absolutely no where else I would have rather been.


Peter Cortner and a flipping Underdog shirt wearing fan at City Gardens, Photo: Ken Salerno

Agent Orange closed out the night and as much as I loved them, they hardly compared to what Dag Nasty had just delivered. I definitely didn't have enough money for a Dag tour shirt, but I remember bugging Tony to let me borrow money to buy myself some Dag Tags. Tony wasn't budging though, he thought the Dag Tags were cheesy and kept telling me that I didn't want those things. Damn Tony… 21 years later I still want those Dag Tags!

On our way out of the club I remember stopping to talk to a couple of straight edge kids about the Revelation Records The Way It Is comp that had just been released. One of those dudes was Rob Mars from Crucial Youth, who was also doing a band called In Touch. Thinking back, little did I know at the time what was about to be unleashed on me with that The Way It Is comp that I would be picking up the following week. I guess you could say 1988 was an interesting year for music… maybe that's a bit of an understatement.


More Smalley, more Dag, more City Gardens, Photo: Ken Salerno

As for Dag Nasty, they're still one of my favorite bands and both Can I Say and Wig Out are two of my favorite records of all time. If I could have voted for both records I definitely would have, but because I had to pick one, I went with Can I Say. Looks like I wasn't the only one. -Tim DCXX


Doug Carrion with all his Molly Ringwald fandom, Photo: Ken Salerno

Dag Nasty - Can I Say - 314
Dag Nasty - Wig Out at Denko's - 47
Dag Nasty - Field Day - 32
Dag Nasty - Four on the Floor - 13
Dag Nasty - Minority of One - 8


Brian Baker and Doug Carrion with Dag Nasty at City Gardens, Photo: Ken Salerno

Dag Nasty "I've Heard" live in Albany, NY 1987

Big thanks to Jon Field for this little jem that was plucked out of his personal collection and digitized. Dag Nasty, Peter Cortner era, 1987, live in Albany, NY playing "I've Heard".

As much as I love "Can I Say" and the original Smalley era of Dag Nasty, I've got no problems with a little "Wig Out" Cortner era. Truth of the matter is, Dag Nasty were one of my favorite bands right from the start. I did hear "Can I Say" first, but at the time, only had it on vinyl. When "Wig Out" was released, I bought in on cassette and rocked it in my walkman nonstop. I probably listened to that "Wig Out" cassette 350 times the year that was released. Eventually that same year I taped "Can I Say" and that ended up getting equal play.

Sunday July 17th, 1988, two of my favorite bands were playing City Gardens together, Agent Orange and Dag Nasty. I was so psyched leading up to this show, I can't even put it into words. At this point, Dag Nasty were in their "Field Day" era, but live were still pretty damn good. I spent most of Dag Nasty's set standing on the top of the stairs that ran along the right side of the stage. I remember their bass player at the time, Doug Carrion, going nuts. I'll also never forget the Molly Ringwald sticker on his bass. Peter Cortner's stage presence also left a lasting impression. Sure I would have loved to seen Dag Nasty during their Smalley era, but seeing Dag Nasty at all is still something I'm glad I got to do. -Tim DCXX

Favorite Dag Nasty frontman wrap up with Dave Smalley

Dag Nasty circa Smalley, Photo courtesy of: Dag House

To wrap up our Dag Nasty poll where we asked you who your favorite Dag frontman was - Shawn, Dave, or Peter - we went to the man himself and winner of the poll, Dave Smalley. I know I speak for Tim as well when I say that I love Shawn Brown and Peter Cortner and all things Dag...but Dave is my favorite, as is Can I Say. He got our votes. Thanks Dave. Take it away... -Gordo DCXX

Was it hard to step into singing for Dag Nasty after Shawn Brown had already structured lyrics and been known as the singer?

It ended up feeling very natural. As for the lyrics, Brian had some huge input into those, too. He’s known as an amazing guitarist, of course, but he’s also an underappreciated, really good lyricist. I think that no matter who writes what, great lyrics are great lyrics – the main thing, as a singer, is to only do lyrics if they speak to you. Can you sing it from the heart in a way that is unique and powerful? And, is it a strong fit of musicians? I think the original album lineup – me, Colin, Roger, Brian – is a very special chemistry. I love those guys, those songs and our recording sessions. It just seemed to click. Sometimes in life that happens, and when it does, it’s a really unique thing.

Since I was already friends with Brian and absolutely love his songwriting and guitar playing, and also Roger and Colin’s amazing rhythm section playing and personalities, and since we all come from the same era of punk and American hardcore – which, you have to remember, was a tiny universe that created really unique bonds in the early 1980s – Dag Nasty felt very natural. And, I was the band’s roadie before I was the singer, so I knew the songs, and had been able to feel them and interpret them in my own way, and get very comfortable with them. So I was able to hopefully give them a unique feel. Hopefully I was able to do the lyrics justice.


Brian Baker on Coke and Doritos, Photo courtesy of: Dag House

What did you think of Dag Nasty with Shawn singing?

Shawn is great! I’m a fan of Swiz, too. I like all the eras and lineups of Dag Nasty.

What do you remember "going for" and really trying to convey on the Can I Say album when you started singing those songs?

You know, Can I Say is one of those albums that is really unique, and has stood the test of time. And that’s such a credit to Brian’s songwriting and guitar style. So my memory of things was less a planned “what to go for” thing and more thinking “oh man, this is such a great song” (for every song), and let the emotion and heart and mind be free, and go with that vibe. My style of singing I think/hope fits the music well. Brian’s songs (and Sam’s in Down By Law) are great to hear as a singer, because you really have to rise to the occasion, not overthink it, and just ride the wave, naturally. But also you have to be on top of your game, because anything less won’t cut it.

How much say did Brian Baker have in your style and how you sang the songs?

Brian is a very respectful artist, who encourages other artists to be at their creative best. He is a part of the process, but as a friend and fellow artist, not as an overseer. The trick in a band, or in life for that matter, is to get good people together and allow them to do what they do well, and let creativity flourish.


Who you gunna call? ... Roger, Photo courtesy of: Dag House

If you had to pick one song as your favorite off the album, what would it be?

That’s really hard. I honestly think Can I Say is one of those albums where every song is incredibly strong. I don’t think I can pick one, but I will say that in my solo concerts, from that album I play “Values Here,” “Circles” and “Under Your Influence.” Plus “Ghosts” and “Twisted Again” from “Minority of One.” I might add more in future shows.


Colin Sears with Dag Nasty at The Rat, Boston, 1986, Photo: Dave Runit

Can you remember the first time you heard the Wig Out recording? Did it still sound like Dag Nasty to you? What did you think of Peter?

Yes, I do remember it – someone sent me the album when I was in Israel (I had quit Dag to go to grad school, and ended up doing my first year of grad school at Hebrew University in Jerusalem). Anyway, I remember listening to it late at night, in my apartment there, and I cried, because I wished I had been the one singing them. But that was a reflection on myself for quitting, not about the album – because I thought Peter did great. Some of those songs, Dag had been doing before I quit, and so it was very interesting to see the different approaches that ended up getting recorded with Pete.

What type of relationship have you had over the years with Shawn Brown and Peter Cortner? What about today?

I don’t see them much, but mostly because we all live in different places, unfortunately. I have a job and a family, as I’m sure those guys do too, and when I’m not doing one of those things, I’m on tour a lot, either with Down By Law or DYS, or doing solo shows. I would love to hang out with them, though.

Dave Smalley - 279
Shawn Brown - 54
Peter Cortner - 38


Punk Rock Demigod, Dave Smalley, Photo courtesy of: Dag House

Dag Nasty - "Minority Of One" Photo Shoot

Colin, Brian and Dave, Photo: Traci McMahon

Back in January of 2002 my wife Traci and I received a call from our friend Larry Ransom, who at the time was working over at Revelation Records. Larry was the main cog in the machine responsible for bringing the Dag Nasty "Minority Of One" LP to the surface and needed some photography done for the band. Larry knowing that Traci and I were huge Dag Nasty fans and Traci being a photographer, asked if we would be interested in driving from New Jersey down to D.C. to do a photo shoot of Dag for the new record. Although on very short notice and smack dab in the middle of a work week, of course our answer was yes and the plans were quickly set in motion.

We were to meet the entire band at Brian Bakers' house. Directions to Brian's house in D.C, were secured and we were on our way down I95. From our area in central New Jersey to D.C., the drive is about 3 hours. For some reason, that 3 hour drive seemed more like 15 minutes and before we knew it we were looking for a parking space in Brian's neighborhood. Brian lived in a pretty nice area, pretty much center city, but the street was lined with classic brownstone type houses and nice cars. His house was in fact a brownstone. We walked up to his door, rang the door bell and were greeted by Mr. Baker himself. He let us in and as we walked down his hall and towards his living room, a freshly bleached hair Dave Smalley popped out of the bathroom. Dave looked at us and said, "Hey, how's it going, my name is Dave", then quickly realized that he actually knew both Traci and me from years back. Within minutes we were catching up and us knowing each other really helped break the awkwardness of walking into a house of someone we had never met and meeting 2 of the other Dag guys that we had never met. We sat down on Brian's sofa and were introduced to both Roger Marbury (bass) and Colin Sears (drums). Both Roger and Colin were super cool and treated us like they had known us for as long as Dave had. Brian was on the phone coordinating a Dag interview for Thrasher Magazine, so up until now we really hadn't had a chance to talk with him much. I remember Coca Cola memorabilia decorations all over the house as well has guitars hung on the walls. It was obvious that Brian's love for Coca Cola had not lessened since his days in Minor Threat.


Brian Baker getting his flaming head tattoo, Photo: Traci McMahon

Once Brian was done with his interview and off the phone, the first thing he said to us was, "So you wana hear one of the new tracks?" It was clear that he and the rest of the band were genuinely excited about this new Dag Nasty record that they had just completed that day. We of course were excited as well and eagerly said yes. Off hand I don't recall what track it was, but we were played one full track. I remember the track being pretty fast and sounding fairly similar to something that could have come off "Can I Say". I believe what we heard was not completely mixed and definitely not mastered, so it almost had a raw sound. We dug it, but as quickly as it was played, it was over and we were packing up to leave.

The bands plan for the photo shoot was to take place at a tattoo shop in Virginia. Dave, Brian and Colin all decided they were going to get the classic "Can I Say" flaming head logo tattooed on them and Traci was going to shoot it all as it went down. When we pulled up at the shop, Brian was the first one in the chair. He was going to get the logo tattooed on his ankle. While Brain was getting tattooed and Traci was shooting it on film, I was sitting in the waiting area with Dave, Roger and Colin and all these guys could talk about was Dag Nasty. They were so fired up and excited about the band and this new record, you would think they were an active band and had never broken up. It was really cool to be sitting there with these three guys who were responsible for writing one of my top 10 favorite hardcore records of all time, "Can I Say". What was cool as well was the fact that I had just met all of these guys, with the exception of Dave and they honestly treated me like I was a long lost roadie for the band.


Roger Marbury sketches up a Dag logo, Photo: Traci McMahon

Once Brian was finished getting tattooed, Colin was the next up. He was getting his on his ankle as well. Brian and Dave were hungry and decided to take a walk down the street to get a sandwich at Subway. Dave asked if I wanted anything or if I wanted to take a walk with them and I decided to tag along. We walked down the steps, out of the shop and straight up the street. Within minutes Brian and Dave started talking and conversation instantly went to old friends. "How's Jon Anastas from DYS doing these days, how's Ian doing, have you talked to Al Barile in awhile, how about Choke, what's up with John Stabb?" At that point everything just seemed so surreal. There I was, a kid from New Jersey, in my late 20s who grew up listening die hard to both of these guys' bands. I have the bass player from Minor Threat to my right and the singer of DYS to my left, they're talking about Ian MacKaye and they just got finished recording a Dag Nasty record... damn it's crazy where you end up sometimes. Eventually we got our sandwiches and headed back to the shop.

Colin was finishing up by the time we got back and Smalley was up next. Dave decided he was going to get his flaming head on the inside of his arm, surrounded by Fred Perry like laurle art. Dave sized up and placed the art on his arm and was quickly in the seat himself. As Dave is getting tattooed, I start dabbling with the idea of getting the flaming head logo tattooed on myself. What better time and what better place, but I was torn. This was clearly the band's day and their experience and in my head it just didn't feel like the right thing to do, for their sake. Maybe if I really was that old roadie that the guys made me feel like, but the truth of the matter was that I had never even seen Dag when they were fronted by Dave. Peter Cortner fronted the Dag I saw and were great, but a Smalley fronted Dag just wasn't in my cards. I restrained myself, but do think back from time to time... damn, that could have been cool.


Dave Smalley and Colin Sears talk Dag while waiting to get tattooed, Photo: Traci McMahon

Once everyone was done and freshly inked, we gathered directions, shook hands and made our way out of the shop. Was a Smalley fronted Dag Nasty live show reunion in the future? That was a question that was in the air between the members and of course in our heads. Maybe in between Bad Religion tours, but there was no guarentee. In a way I felt like I already witnessed a reunion, a reunion of old friends that got together to write and play the music that they loved and still love. Thanks Dave, Brian, Colin and Roger... thanks for recording one of the greatest records ever, "Can I Say" and thanks for letting Traci and I sit in on a very cool and special time. Traci was happy to document it with the photos and I was happy to just be there. An extra thanks is also due to Larry for coordianting the whole thing from the start."I'm loooking at pictures and I'm thinking of those times". -Tim DCXX


The Dag Nasty "Minority Of One" promo photo that Rev used, Photo: Traci McMahon

Jake Jacobs Wigs Out

Dag Nasty with Peter Cortner at City Gardens, Photo: Ken Salerno

New DCXX contributor Jake Jacobs hits us with a piece he wrote a few years back on Dag's classic second album, sharing his personal coming of age with the record that seems to split people down the middle... -Gordo DCXX

The first time I heard Dag Nasty's Wig Out At Denko's album, I hated it.
It was 1987. The previous year, I had purchased and fallen in love with Dag Nasty's Can I Say LP, which is an extremely significant slab o' wax in my life both because of the music and lyrics as well as being the very first record that I ever purchased at Zed Records in Long Beach, California (the punk and hardcore record store of the day). Anyway, I had just turned 17 and gotten my driver's license that summer and some friends of mine and I were driving somewhere and listening to the title track off of Wig Out. I remember thinking to myself, WHAT THE FUCK IS THIS SHIT??? Just one year earlier, Dag Nasty had released one of the best punk/hardcore records I'd ever heard in my life! How the hell could they have fallen off in ONE YEAR'S TIME? I placed the majority of the blame for the weak soundingness of Wig Out squarely on the shoulders of Peter Cortner (the singer on Wig Out who'd been recruited to replace Can I Say's singer, Dave Smalley) and quickly forgot about it.


Brian, Doug and Peter of Dag Nasty, Photo: Ken Salerno

Fast forward 4 years…

In 1991, Dischord Records very kindly released both Can I Say and Wig Out At Denko's on one CD at a very affordable price for me, at the time a 20 year old full time college student with a part time minimum wage job. I'd been waiting impatiently for 5 long years for Can I Say to be released on CD, so I purchased it shortly after it hit the racks. After listening to Can I Say a number of times, I decided to give Wig Out another try.

For some reason, I enjoyed Wig Out even more than Can I Say and began listening to it on a daily basis. In fact, to this day, whenever I listen to Wig Out, it makes me think about 1991 and what a fantastic time in my life that year was. Some of the highlights: hanging out with my brother Evan and my best friend Mike all the time, their band ICE playing their first real shows, seeing 411 (my all time favorite Orange County, California band) play live at least 5 or 6 times, seeing my good friend Joe do his first shows as the singer for Triggerman (another favorite local band of mine), getting a shout out for my 21st birthday at a show from Greg Brown (the singer in Blackspot, yet another favorite local band of mine), going out to eat at Denny's after all the shows, discovering Vinyl Solution in Huntington Beach and shopping there on a weekly basis – the list goes on. No other album brings all of those great memories back to me in vivid detail like Wig Out does.


Cortner belts it out, Photo: Ken Salerno

But it has ANOTHER very important significance in my life…

It was Monday, April 19th, 2004. Just two days before, I had taken the biggest step that I'd ever taken before in my then 33 year old life by marrying my wife Christy. With the very minor exception of the rain that came down during the ceremony (which was outside, natch), it was a beautiful wedding and definitely one of the best days of my entire life (if you want to feel like a celebrity for a day, get married). Anyway, I was still riding the wave of euphoria of having gotten married while I was in my car driving to work that Monday morning (because I was between jobs and working as a temp at the time, I couldn't take time off for a proper honeymoon that week). As is customary whenever I drive by myself anywhere, I reached into the cassette compartment in my car and popped the first cassette that I got my hand on into the tapedeck.


Brian Baker, Haagen Dazs and hair bleach, Photo: Ken Salerno

Which just so happened to be an album called Wig Out At Denko's by a band called Dag Nasty.

The first album that I listened to the weekend after my wedding day.

As I drove to work that morning with side A of Wig Out playing full blast in the tapedeck, I thought about two things and two things only:

1. I had just gotten married to the best girl in the entire world.
2. 1991 - the best year of my 20s.


Dag doing it at City Gardens, Cortner style, Photo: Ken Salerno

Peter Cortner of Dag Nasty on The Crucial Three

Dag Nasty at City Gardens, Trenton NJ, Photo: Ken Salerno

I've been talking with Peter Cortner, Dag Nasty's 3rd frontman and one of the geniuses behind Dag's "Wig Out at Denko's" album. As much as I love the Dave Smalley "Can I Say" era of Dag, I almost equally love the "Wig Out" era with Peter. I was able to catch Dag Nasty on their "Field Day" tour at City Gardens, which I believe was in May of 1988. Without question, Dag's set that night was and always has been a highlight of my show going years. My only regret from that night was not buying a "Field Day" tour shirt and those Dag Tags they were selling. I've probably searched high and low for those Dag Tags over the past 20 years and have never come across one person that still has them.

Although I have never come across those Dag Tags, I did find Peter and thought it would be cool to get to the bottom of a few Dag related mysteries. The first thing I asked Peter about was the story behind the song, "The Crucial Three". I know I've always wondered who "The Crucial Three" were, so it's pretty cool to get the story straight from the horse's mouth. Expect more content from Peter Cortner in future DCXX entries. Thanks again to Peter for sharing this with us. -Tim DCXX

The Crucial Three is about an intensely fucked-up relationship I had in high school between me, my best friend and my girlfriend (at the time). The two of them and I are the "three," and the song is about how trying to forget about them meant forgetting a lot about myself. The "I don't wanna lose" line is about loss of identity, respect, friends and memory, as well as simply feeling like a loser. I wish the song was about something cooler; if you thought it was about Ian, Rollins and Jesus Christ then forget I said anything!

Dag Nasty / The Art of Virgil Finlay

Dag Nasty - Can I Say

If you're reading Double Cross I'm sure you're already well aware of the masterpiece known as "Can I Say" put together on Dischord Records by the almighty Dag Nasty, but were you aware of where the legendary "flaming head" logo/cover art came from? All we know is that the original artwork was done by an American artist named Virgil Finlay (1914-1971), who was known for his pulp fantasy, science fiction and horror illustrations. As for the story behind how this artwork was tweaked, cropped and turned into the well known Dag Nasty "Can I Say" logo/cover art, we have yet to hear that, but I can assure you we are already looking into it and will be featuring it here on DCXX as soon as we get to the bottom of it. Until then, do yourself a favor and go look up the art of Virgil Finlay, his great artwork surely didn't start or stop with this one piece. Oh yeah, go listen to some Dag Nasty while you're searching. Thanks to both Ed McKirdy and Larry Ransom for bringing this to us. -Tim DCXX


The Art of Virgil Finlay


Great band, great photo, great logo, great shirt... all hail the power of Dag.

Caine Rose - Touch X Down, 4 Walls Falling, Fed Up!...

Self portrait by Caine Rose

When asked to contribute to Double Cross by sharing one of my favorite memories from a hardcore show, I took pause in indecision. The first show I went to was about 25 years ago and there were so many untold favorite memories that I lived in those early days. Which to tell of? Besides, I really don't listen to much hardcore music contemporarily, save "Eight Miles High" by Husker Du last night on repeat while I washed a sink full of dishes. And I'm not a nearly 40 year old man who wears band t-shirts, save the Antidote "Thou Shalt Not Kill" shirt I scored from Ray Cappo when he stayed at my house on tour in 1987, when I was working out the other night. Still, the chance to share a moment in time seemed too much to negate.

While I have many stories of the notorious youth crew cast of iconic bands such as Youth of Today, Gorilla Biscuits, Wide Awake, Side by Side, Judge, Project X, et al., I think my favorite memory is comprised of an event that few took part in and probably no one will ever read that remembers and that is both a shame and blessing, for now it gets to be retold.

It was the summer of 1987, all my hard work as a singer and band leader was beginning to pay off with more and more gigs manifesting. My original straight edge band, Screaming for Change! (circa 1986), had incarnated into What if!, as so many bands back then did. It contained essentially the same members and same songs, just a renovation to facilitate my quest for changing with the times. Where SFC! was a more hard-lined militant SXE approach inspired by say, DYS, What If! took the more diplomatic Dag Nasty route to drug free, positive liberation. We landed a show with none other than Brian Baker's brainchild, Dag Nasty at some club whose name I have forgotten in Virginia Beach.


Caine with Touch X Down at The Anthrax, January 2, 1988, Photo: BP

The one all ages matinee show turned into a youth crew adventure to remember. The event was set up by a guy named Eddie, who professed to be a local promoter who had a real interest in my band and just had to get us on the ticket. He invited us to stay at his place and even offered to ease a few of our parents into the deal with persuasions over the telephone. At the time, we were all 15 to 17 years old and a few of our parents were a bit tentative about unleashing their teenaged sons to a beach trip a couple of hours away from home with no adult supervision.

Eddie coaxed them with claims that he was a doctor that did social programs with kids and that he was hosting a drug free and positive environment with a cookout, et al. for all of us. When we finally arrived the night before the show, a 40-something washed up hippie/surfer named Eddie greeted us with, “hey dudes, ya’ll got any weed?”

We had brought along a posse of Richmond kids and the 10 or 12 of us that came along wrecked Eddie’s place that night. He had a vintage collection of surf and skate stickers that ended up on some of our boards by morning. And there was no cookout!

The show was finally at hand and what a great bill it was: Dag Nasty, Swiz, several other D.C. bands and What If! At the time, Peter Cortner was singing for Dag Nasty and we had a good relationship with him since he was a very personable and humble guy, but Brian Baker was every bit as stuck up and stand offish as rumors had it. I had met him before, but it was only as a fan who just wanted to express thanks for his contribution to Minor Threat. A couple of us got really burned up when we heard that he was sighted drinking alcohol either in the tour van or at some local bar before the show. It was all the impetus we needed to exact some straight edge revenge.

Near the end of the show, during a big sing-a-long, a couple of us grabbed the mike cord and wrapped it around his ankles just as a pile on commenced. He instantly fell back and onto his ass! As the cord got yanked on by fans who wanted to sing, it pulled him across the stage. He was rendered helpless for a few brief, but precious seconds. Revenge was sweet!

It was the precursor taunting to the later heckling of Ian MacKaye on the first Fugazi tour in Richmond, where we yelled at the former straight edge god after he cried about “not being in that band anymore” and that we “should just move on”. No one was there for Fugazi. We were there to see a Minor Threat reunion. What do you expect!? All these years later, my thoughts are, the only thing worse than those who try to divorce themselves from their former glory is those who parade around the carcass of their long expired glory. Be here now.


One of Caine's former bands, What If on a pretty damn good bill

Jon Field memories

The Gilman St. San Francisco trip, left to right: Jay Weller, Chris Daily and Jon Field, Photo courtesy of: Jon

Jon Field has been a fixture of the east coast hardcore scene for the past 25 years and came up in the mid 80s while seeing shows all over the northeast and playing guitar in Up Front. Tim and I had been meaning to get him on DCXX for a while, and after a night in his hometown of Richmond while shooting the shit over dinner, it really hit us that Jon not only saw tons of awesome stuff and still loves hardcore, but he actually has a great memory for it too. It's always a bummer when you talk to someone who saw awesome bands play over the years, but they have zero recollection of anything substantial.

So, enjoy Jon's memories and the visuals to go along with them. Much more soon, thanks Jon. -Gordo DCXX



What was the best show you ever saw at CB's? Any stand out stories that are still vivid 25 years later?

My main memories of CB's are related to the club itself: The broken floorboards in the pit with 100 year old nails sticking up; carrying my birth certificate so I could prove to Hilly's wife I was 16; the bathroom with one toilet that you had to step up to, with no stall, so that people coming down the stairs could see you taking a shit; the AMAZING sound system, that to this day I can pick out in any live recording from the club; hanging out on the street while the homeless men upstairs heckled us and threw things at us; that feeling I got every time I went of good music, Sunday afternoons, excitement, camaraderie, danger and friends, that still comes back to me whenever I see a video; how the walls literally oozed sweat, cigarette smoke, graffiti and old flyers.

As for shows, a lot are a blur, but a good amount really stand out to me. I'll go with the first three that pop into my head...

The first was when I saw Straight Ahead at the Band Together show in July of '86. My friend Mike and I got in, Steve and Jeff Up Front did not. Normally we would have just left and hung out with them, but it was Straight Ahead! I was blown away. I still remember standing off to the right side of the stage with my walkman so I could record the show. My friends and I wore that tape out. At one point Craig says that people say they (Straight Ahead) are young and just going through a phase, but that they mean everything they're saying, and the girl next to me says "Awww, he's so CUTE." That always makes me laugh when I listen to that recording. Then a fight broke out at the end of their set outside and the whole place cleared out. This was also the show where Rest in Pieces played and Armand wore a Skrewdriver shirt and short 70s gyn shorts. Warzone, Ludichrist and Ed Gein's Car were a few other bands that played that day. With all those great bands, I was amazed that there only were about 75 people in the club at any given time.

Another one that stand out is GI in 1986. They played for close to 3 hours, to about 25 people. My friends and I loved it, the rest of the crowd looked like they were about to fall asleep. They played almost every song they had.



In February of '87 Dag Nasty, Verbal Assault, Bold and Death Before Dishonor played. I remember the rumor being that Dag Nasty had changed and weren't going to play any fast songs. They opened up with a slightly different/slower version of Under Your Infuence. But when they went straight from that into Can I Say the place erupted. At the end of their set, Peter starts doing the chorus and talking part from What Now. The crowd starts doing it with him and he stops them, telling them Dave Smalley's story is totally different. He ends it with "We both walked right by and you didn't say a word. But I looked you right in the eye and said...12XU!" As they broke into the song the place erupted again. This was back before they recorded this song, and before they played it on a fairly regular basis. I have the soundboard of this show and put it in circulation on the web about 10 years ago. The 12XU part still gives me chills, like it did that Sunday afternoon in 1987.

All of the bands that day were amazing. The flyer from that show is still one of my all-time favorites, and I managed to grab the giant Bold set list that was written on the back of two duct-taped-together flyers from that show, two more reasons this show stands out to me. Then, following the CBs matinee, we went to The Ritz to see Ziggy Marley & The Melody Makers...long day.


Bold setlist is from the back of the Dag Nasty/Bold/DBD/Verbal Assault flyer

Tell us about some of the other venues of the NYHC scene in the mid and late 80s - Pyramid, Ritz, L'amour, Irving Plaza, etc. What are memorable bands you remember playing, and what can you recall about these non-CB's NYC venues?

Unfortunately, I never made it to the Pyramid Club. Shows there were always Saturday matinees, and I had to work at Sears all day every Saturday. The Pyramid only did about 6 months of shows in the late 80s, and it sounds ridiculous now, but bands like Youth Of Today, Side By Side, GB, etc. played all the time. I figured no big deal, I'd see them at The Anthrax or CB's. After the fact I wished I had gone to at least a few shows there.

The Ritz was great because it really helped introduce my friends and I to hardcore. We started going to shows at the 11th Street location as metalheads in '85, and ended as SE kids in '88 or so when it moved to the old Studio 54. I saw some great shows at the original Ritz (now Webster Hall), and a handful at the new location in the late 80s and early 90s. I think the best thing about the Rock Hotel at The Ritz shows from '85 to '87 was the variety. Where else could you see the Cro Mags open for SOD or Dark Angel, the Bad Brains open for Slayer, MDC open for Celtic Frost or Youth Of Today open for Discharge?

The first Ritz was an old art deco concert hall, and typical of the mid 80s, there was an odd mixture of punks, metalheads, skinheads, and a lot of mohawks and leather jackets. They rarely had bouncers for the Rock Hotel shows, and if they did it was people like Raybeez, so stagediving off the 5 foot tall stage was prevalent. I remember one guy breaking his neck at a Cro Mags show, and frequently seeing pools of blood on the floor in the bathroom. The best was that they still had an old guy in the men's bathroom selling aftershave/cologne and providing hot towels at the first shows I went to there. Like it was the 1950s and we were at a Frank Sinatra concert or something.



As far as bands that stand out? In addition to the ones I mentioned above, Descendents, Raven, Flipper, Slayer, Motorhead, Firehose, Wendy O Williams, SNFU, DRI, Circle Jerks, Project X, Dag Nasty, Raw Deal, GBH and many more. I remember Warzone coming out with a fog machine, and they used so much dry ice that you couldn't see your hand in front of your face in the pit. I first heard Rise And Fall from Leeway at The Ritz. The bass beginning fooled me and when the guitars kick in quick in the beginning I literally jumped off my feet it surprised me so much. Doggy Style came out in grass skirts and dayglo green body paint and got most of the dance floor (hundreds of people) to do the doggy style hop.

For the earliest shows I was still in metalhead mode, and would stay crushed up against the stage for the whole show. My chest/ribs would hurt for days afterwards. I remember being incredibly psyched to see the Descendents for the first time in 1986. They always put a screen down in between bands (which could last a LONG time) and showed weird videos a la Night Flight on USA. They also would show videos of bands from earlier in the night, and I've always wondered what happened to all that great footage. The promoter Chris Williamson may have had a sketchy reputation, but he put on some of the best shows I've ever seen.

Irving Plaza, Lismar Lounge and L'amour were other places in NYC that I saw shows at back then. A very large PA speaker fell on some guy at a Meatmen/Die Kreuzen show at Irving Plaza. This was War of the Superbikes era Meatmen, they put on a great show.


WNYU pic is Roger Up Front, Ian Keeler (RIP) and Grant Unit Pride, with various Unit Pride and Up Front guys in the background. I'm on the far right behind Grant. This was taken outside of the WNYU building the night Unit Pride and Up Front played on Crucial Chaos, Photo courtesy of: Jon Field

WNYU's Crucial Chaos, while not a traditional "venue," was someplace a lot of hardcore bands played in the late 80s/early90s, and I was lucky enough to play there three times with Up Front. The main DJ area was pretty typical looking for a college radio station, and a large window separated that from the small room where the bands played. While it was a little cramped in the room, the main issue was how hard it was to hear the songs over the wall of noise. Still, it was incredibly exciting to play on the radio. I remember leaving a cassette tape in my bedroom stereo and teaching my Mom how to start the recording when we played.

Even though L'amour in Brooklyn wasn't a typical NYHC venue, my friends and I were introduced to hardcore there through bands like Suicidal Tendencies, Crumbsuckers, DRI and Corrosion of Conformity in 1985, along with great metal bands like Slayer, SOD, Nuclear Assault, Anthrax, Overkill and more. And even though they weren't in NYC, we went to/played some good shows at places like The Pipeline in Newark, NJ, and the Rite Track Inn on Long Island and Streets in New Rochelle, NY.



What is a memorable Up Front show from The Anthrax? Why did The Anthrax always prove to be great for Up Front?

As individuals we went to hundreds of shows there, so most importantly we had tons of friends at The Anthrax. I'm sure a lot of kids in hardcore are lucky to have a hometown club to go to or play at, but of all the clubs I've gone to, The Anthrax was the most unique in that respect (except maybe for Gilman St). There's a few reasons for that: Brian and Shaun being so supportive of the hardcore scene, especially the local scene, and the fact that for the most part, it was an all punk and hardcore club. So shows for us were like a big party. Lots of pile-ups and sing alongs, lots of inside jokes, just a great time.

As for most memorable.....that's a tough one. I can narrow it down to a few. Our show with Youth Of Today and Warzone in the Fall of '87 was our first really big show. We had only been a band for less than a year, and it was packed when we played. Plus, I brought a few of my non-hardcore friends, and I'll never forget their reactions. I'm still good friends with one of them, and to this day we joke about it.


Steve with Up Front at The Anthrax, first show with Youth Of Today, Photo courtesy of: Jon Field

A fight broke out during our set, and the two people fighting fell to the ground at the feet of my friends. I could see the fear on their faces from on stage, I'll never forget it. You have to remember, this was back in the days of Duran Duran and Madonna. So anything with a distorted guitar that wasn't Bon Jovi or Def Leppard was completely out there. One of my friends talked in amazement for months that people had their noses pierced, he couldn't believe it.

The Aaron Straw benefit is another that sticks out. We were at the end of a tour with Unit Pride, and about to go out again for another month long tour. Sadly, I think the violence at that show may have been the beginning of the end for The Anthrax, but even with that, it was an amazing show. Great bands, great cause, and I got to see Wide Awake for the first time in a while. I remember being inside while all the bands were loading in, and Jeff Up Front and I wondered if anyone was in the parking lot. As we rounded the corner and approached the front doors we couldn't believe the line we saw. I never saw that many people waiting to get into a show at The Anthrax before or after that day.

Another one would be when we played with Project X, Judge and Pressure Release in 1988. I broke a string and ended up with Porcell's Les Paul. The crowd was insane, and I was scared to death someone was going to run into me and damage his guitar. Then we played Deliverance after only 1 or 2 practices and butchered it. Towards the end of our set Jeff bashed Steve in the head with his bass guitar tuning pegs, and friends rushed Steve out the back door to the hospital to get stitches without telling us. After 5 minutes of confusion while we looked for Steve, Chris Daily attempted to sing Foolhearted, then we ended the set. So not the best show, but definitely memorable.


Crowd outside The Anthrax for the Aaron Straw benefit, Photo courtesy of: Jon Field

Geoff Nicholson - Buffalo photographer

Civ and Wally with Gorilla Biscuits at The Pipe Dragon, Buffalo NY, Spring 1988, Photo: Geoff Nicholson

One of the things I like the most about doing DCXX is finding people who did some lesser-known albeit very cool stuff during their time in hardcore. A perfect example of this is a guy like Geoff Nicholson, a now California-based photographer who took some great photos of the Buffalo hardcore scene in the late 80s and was a part of the fanzine Pushed Too Far. Some of his great HC shots have circulated over the last couple years, and it made me wonder who was on the other side of the camera. Although some readers may wonder why we would interview a guy who only took some photos for a few years, the reality is that Tim and I love getting more info on practically anybody that was involved with the bands we love - even if was simply by taking photos.

Beyond that, we thought Geoff was able to provide some great info on the Buffalo scene from that time period. Thanks Geoff. -Gordo DCXX
geoffreynicholson.com


Zulu with BOLD at The Pipe Dragon, Buffalo NY, Spring 1988, Photo: Geoff Nicholson

When and where did you first get into punk/HC? What else were you into (or perhaps, not into) at the time?

Prior to punk my music tastes were pretty limited, the Who, Led Zeppelin, the Kinks, many older records my dad had. I first heard "punk" through a friend's older sister when I was very young, 11-12. She used to babysit me and played me the Clash, "London Calling." I was fortunate enough to see the Clash play at the University of Buffalo in 1984, not the best line up, but it was a new experience for me.

Before that, the only live concerts I saw were with my parents, the Kinks and also the Police the year before. Soon after I heard the Clash I got the Sex Pistols "Never Mind the Bollocks." I thought that was a heavy record. I wasn't into many popular bands at that point in junior high, 1980s pop wasn't for me. It wasn't until I started high school in 1985 that I was turned onto hardcore. A friend's older brother played us Black Flag's "Damaged," and various other Los Angeles hardcore bands, Fear, Circle Jerks, and Suicidal Tendencies. From that point on I forgot all about British "punk". I could relate more with the American hardcore bands, plus the sound was much louder, heavier, and faster, plus the bands were more about the music, not all about the funky hair and clothes.


Slap Shot at Metal Shop, North Tonawanda NY, Photo: Geoff Nicholson

How did photography tie in with your interest in live music? Did you shoot bands from the beginning?

Sadly, I wish I had started photographing at shows earlier than I did. I didn't really start actively taking a camera to shows until some point in 1987. My first hardcore show was Black Flag on their final tour in 1986 at Sun Ship studios on Main Street in Buffalo, my second show a few months later was the Circle Jerks at Buff State, and DRI/Dr. Know/Die Kreuzen at a Knights of Columbus hall in Cheektowaga, all were shows I really wish I had taken pictures at. At the time just being at the those shows blew me away.


An X'ed up Roger with Agnostic Front at Metal Shop, North Tonawanda NY, Photo: Geoff Nicholson

A friend and I started making a fanzine called "Pushed Too Far" for a short period of time in 1987-88, this was when I started taking pictures at many shows, SNFU, Agnostic Front, Dag Nasty, Slap Shot, DRI, among others. For the fanzine, my friend Mike did the interviews and I did all the photography. For whatever reason though, I wasn't shooting at all the shows; I guess I was just shooting bands that I really liked. The fanzine was the only place where my hardcore band photos saw the light of day until very recently when I started posting some online. While digging through old negatives I found shots I'd never even seen before. When doing the fanzine I'd just look at the negatives with a lamp and pick a couple to print. I never made proof sheets then, so I never had any idea what other shots I had until years later.

To this day I'm still amazed my film came out ok. I had no real training in photography, just a very basic explanation on how the camera and flash worked from my dad, who did photography and darkroom work as a hobby.


Steve Reddy with Wolf Pack at Metal Shop, North Tonawanda NY, Photo: Geoff Nicholson

What was the Buffalo scene like in the mid/late 80s? Where did you see shows, and what bands stood out both locally and as touring acts?

Many of the original hardcore bands were fading somewhat at the point when my friends and I came into it, it was the start of that second wave of hardcore bands starting. Don't get me wrong, the bands were still amazing and the shows were always a great time. We were considered the kiddies at the early shows, we were 14 at the time. The Buffalo scene was fairly small, so you knew almost everyone. From 1986-1988 shows were going on constantly. Hardcore was everything to us, finding new records and going to shows was all we wanted to do. The scene was tight then, the same people at every show, no one really got seriously hurt in the pit because you looked out for each other. Shows were where everyone would meet, we lived all over the city but the shows brought us together.

It was when metal dudes started coming to shows and thinking that it was ok to try to actually hurt people. It was in that time frame, 1988 or so when the term slam dancing turned into "Moshing." No more circle pit, and shows got rougher. I feel at this point was when you got more morons and meatheads turning up at shows causing problems. Sometimes you'd get skinheads coming down from Toronto for shows on occasion, these guys being the ultimate violent morons in my book. I feel the scene did split somewhat because Buffalo was heavily influenced by East Coast/NYC hardcore bands, as well as the straight edge movement preaching their holier than thou silliness.




Judge at The Pipe Dragon, Buffalo NY, Spring 1988, Photo: Geoff Nicholson

The bands from NYC were great, but it was a different mentality, more of a tough guy thing. I'm not a violent guy, I gravitated to more D.C. bands, Beefeater, Minor Threat, Soulside, Scream, Dag Nasty and one of my all time favorites Government Issue. Bands which were more about being yourself, thinking for yourself, or just having fun. But only a handful of those bands played Buffalo.

It was at the end of the 1980s that it felt like all the bands were starting to sound the same, all either NYC hardcore or bands playing that sound. Sick of it All, Agnostic Front, and Underdog stick out for me as the more memorable bands from NYC, there were other good bands, but it was all too similar for me. Shows were at many different places, Am vets in Riverside, various other Am vets and Knights of Columbus halls, Painters Hall on Elmwood, Mr. Goodbar, numerous great shows at the Metal Shop in North Tonawanda, the Turtle Indian museum in Niagara Falls (Corrosion of Conformity, Gang Green, and Uniform Choice I think), UB, Buff State, the Pipe Dragon had many great shows too, later, in 1988 the River Rock Café was probably the last place I went to hardcore shows in Buffalo. Bands/shows I will always remember: the Circle Jerks at Buff State, an absolutely insane show. We got to meet both Keith Morris and Greg Hetson before the show; I'm not sure why they came up to us, maybe being much younger than most of the people at the college run show. For whatever reason I remember Keith telling us he'd been living off of rice for months, he looked totally emaciated. I didn't know who this guy (Keith) talking to us was until Greg Hetson came up, we recognized him from photos. I recall them both being extremely nice and friendly, which was cool because we knew no one else at the show. Being clueless, my friends and I were standing right up front of the stage before the Circle Jerks came on. When the band hit the stage the crowd turned into a massive tidal wave of bodies. I ended up being pushed onstage, and then on top on a stage monitor, being stepped on by stage divers and the likes, Keith Morris pulled me up and probably saved me from cracking some ribs.


Dag Nasty at Metal Shop, North Tonawanda NY, Photo: Geoff Nicholson

Another fantastic show was SNFU at the Am vets in Riverside. The show was a blast, Chi Peg, the singer, doing flips and hitting donuts into the audience with a tennis racket. Just a great, fun band. Other great shows, any other SNFU show for that matter, the many times DRI played, the Accused, Agnostic Front, Gorilla Biscuits, Murphy's Law, Straight Ahead, Corrosion of Conformity, Dag Nasty, Verbal Assault, Underdog, Suicidal Tendencies, too many to remember.

The most popular local hardcore band had to be Third Man In, later known as New Balance, then finally as Zero Tolerance. Most other local acts played a couple shows and that was it, Pathetic Fallacy, D.I.E., and SAO to name a few. Sadly the Goo Goo Dolls opened for way too many hardcore shows, they were WAY better back then, but didn't really belong opening up for say, DRI. Hell, they even opened for Motorhead in North Tonawanda in 1988. I found that to be quite a joke.

I feel fortunate seeing all the bands I did, I'll always look back and remember what a good time in music that era was, and all the good times we had. It was something that could never repeat itself.


Porcell with Youth Of Today at The Pipe Dragon, Buffalo NY, Spring 1988, Photo: Geoff Nicholson

Poll results for favorite Agent Orange record

I think I caught a few people off guard with this poll. For some reason or another a poll pertaining to a California surf punk band wasn't something a lot of people expected to see. Truth of the matter is, Agent Orange were one of the the very first punk bands I paid legitimate attention to.

Coming up as a skater in 1985, it was nearly impossible to not of heard of Agent Orange. They had their own deck on Vision and they appeared in Vision's classic "Skate Visions" video, plus they were constantly being covered in Thrasher Magazine. Once I saw their footage in Skate Visions and heard "Bloodstains" during some ramp jam footage, I was hooked.

The first Agent Orange record I bought was "When You Least Expect It" sometime around 1986. I had a paper route at that time and I would listen to a tape of that record every single day while I was out delivering those papers. Considering "When You Least Expect It" was only an EP, those songs went by super fast and I'd just end flipping the tape and listening to it all over again. As familiar as I was with the Jefferson Airplane song, "Somebody To Love", Agent Orange turned that song completely into their own and I've always loved their version. As a matter of fact, I've always loved this entire record. Every time I hear "Bite The Hand That Feeds (part 2)", I want to grab my board and skate as fast as I can down a long, smooth hill.



As much as I love "When You Least Expect It", I equally love "Living In Darkness", which made this a very tough poll for me to vote on. Every song on "Living In Darkness" is great and 23 years after first hearing it, I still listen to it regularly and it's still just as good as it was all those years ago. Apparently the majority agreed and "Living In Darkness" won this poll by a landslide.

When Ken Salerno saw this poll, he sent me over a pile of Agent Orange photos from one of their shows at Trenton's City Gardens. Funny coincidence... the photos he sent happened to be from the first show I saw Agent Orange , July 17th 1988 with Dag Nasty. Agent Orange and Dag Nasty were both great that night, but I'll never forget the pompadour on Agent Orange's bass player. My friend Tony and I were referring to the guy as "Slim Jim Phantom" from the Stray Cats, all night long. I probably spent a good deal of their set cracking up, but honestly, they were great and I'll never forget that show. -Tim DCXX

Living In Darkness LP - 131
Bloodstains EP - 56
When You Least Expect It EP- 12
This Is The Voice LP - 10
Bitchin' Summer EP - 7
Virtually Indestructible - 7


Mike Palm of Agent Orange, City Gardens, July 17th 1988, Photo: Ken Salerno


Agent Orange at City Gardens, July 17th 1988, Photo: Ken Salerno


Mike Palm and said "Slim Jim Phantom" character, City Gardens, July 17th 1988, Photo: Ken Salerno